Chris Reason, Program Host:

Next Saturday marks a year since the United States launched its invasion to oust Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. During future military campaigns, Australia's army may well be fighting alongside their US allies, with this week's decision to buy 59 Abrams tanks.

To discuss the upgrade, the Defence Minister Senator Robert Hill is in our Adelaide studio. To interview him is the Seven Network's new chief political correspondent, Mark Riley. Good morning, Mark. Welcome to Sunday Sunrise.

Mark Riley, Chief Political Correspondent:

Good morning. Thanks, Chris. Minister, good morning to you.

Minister for Defence, Senator Robert Hill:

Good morning, Mark.

Mark Riley:

Good morning. First to Spain. The Spanish Government has just announced the arrest of five individuals, three Moroccans, believed to be Islamic extremists. This is sounding like al-Qaeda, isn't it?

Senator Robert Hill:

I think it's still too early. As of yesterday, anyway, the International Intelligence Agency was still leaning towards ETA because of the recent capture of a large cache of explosives, dynamite, which is the same type of explosives at the train stations and also the capture of a couple of extremists of recent times. So, it is too early, but they've got good evidence in terms of one of the bombs that didn't go off and is now being forensically examined, including the trigger devices, and that sort of information generally will lead to the culprit.

Mark Riley:

There's still a risk, isn't there, this is the beginning of a new terrorist campaign globally?

Senator Robert Hill:

Oh, the global terrorism, particularly from Islamic extremists, is simply continuing. If this turns out to be al-Qaeda or one of the associate groups, then it is another terrible chapter of that group's international activities, but it claims its right to Jihad against a whole range of different persons. Spain has always rated quite highly, partly because of its history, which they see as being anti-Islamic and also, of course, its engagement in the war against terror.

Mark Riley:

What about Australia then in that regard because we're also there in the war against terror, one of the four front-line coalition allies in Iraq in the first campaign in Afghanistan. Isn't there an elevated risk now against Australia?

Senator Robert Hill:

Well, we - whilst we don't know of any specific threat to Australia, we certainly take the issue seriously. We've been saying that for a long time. We've significantly increased our counter-terrorism capability with reinforcement around strategic sets, a lot of extra security, an air transport and the like and that must continue. In fact, we have a counter-terrorism exercise in Sydney tomorrow and later this month we'll have the largest counter-terrorism exercise in Australia's history, which will be multi-jurisdictional, using all of our assets both on the eastern side of Australia and the west, police, special forces and the like coordinated out of Canberra by Cabinet or under the direction of Cabinet. So, we take these issues very seriously. Just because we don't have a specific …

Mark Riley:

Minister, will that exercise - sorry, minister, will that exercise now have a particular focus on transport?

Senator Robert Hill:

There's a range of different potential scenarios of threat and they are intended to be covered. We don't - we're not giving the agencies details up front because of course we're testing their capability to respond and this will be a very demanding exercise in terms of the coordination that's required, the long distances that will need to be travelled, the role of bringing in state governments for the first time in conjunction with the Federal Government.

So, transport - the threat to transport, of course, is a key concern but there are a number of others also, scenarios, regarding hostages, potential offshore events, offshore platforms and the like. They will be covered within this training exercise.

Mark Riley:

I see. In terms of our commitment now to the war on terror, will Australia be sending troops to Afghanistan to join the new US offensive there in the mountains?

Senator Robert Hill:

We don't have a plan to do so. We believe the Australian forces are if not fully engaged, the operational rate of tempo is still very high. We still have a significant force in the Middle East area of operations. We've got something like just over 800 of our personnel …

Mark Riley:

But, Minister, we only have, as far - sorry, minister, but as far as the defence website tells us, we only have one defence person in the country in Afghanistan. New Zealand are now sending 50 people. Why do we only have one?

Senator Robert Hill:

Well, that's a range of different operations we can engage in. We went to Afghanistan, we joined with the United States and others in disrupting the leadership of al-Qaeda, destroying their training camps, their weapons caches and the like and we believe …

Mark Riley:

But the job is not done, though, minister, is it? Sorry, the job is not done, is it? Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are now back in the mountains. The US is going back in with a new operation. This is the front-line, isn't it, on the war on terror?

Senator Robert Hill:

The job is not done in the sense that global terrorism hasn't been defeated but, on the other hand, we also have to look at other areas of concern. In terms of building up our intelligence on the terrorist networks within South-East Asia, that's been a major priority. We're also engaged in areas of concern within the Pacific, as you know. We have a range of different challenges, whether it's from the Solomon Islands to Iraq, and we can only do so much at the one time.

Mark Riley:

Can I ask you about Iraq then, minister. It is a year this week from the start of the war there. We have 820-odd troops still in Iraq. Are there any plans to change that, to scale back or to add to our commitment?

Senator Robert Hill:

Not in size, but we change the focus according to the priorities. A lot of our focus now is on rebuilding Iraqi institutions. In particular, we're helping in re-building the new Iraqi Army, the new Iraqi Navy. As well as protecting our diplomats and officials, we still are responsible for air traffic control at Baghdad International Airport, which has been done most successfully - fantastic job by the Australian forces. We still have a ship in the Gulf, a transport aircraft and the Hercs have done a marvellous job also. So, according to the priorities, we will mix - re-mix the force, but not in terms of size.

Mark Riley:

I see. This week the Australian War Memorial opens an Iraq exhibit. That would be a good time to announce an Iraq service medal, wouldn't it?

Senator Robert Hill:

Medals is not my responsibility, but on the issue of medals, I know the issue is well advanced.

Mark Riley:

(Laughs) I see. That sounds like a yes.

Senator Robert Hill:

(Laughs)

Mark Riley:

Minister, on defence purchases, the air warfare destroyer. We have some vision here of the three ships or the three ship designers who have been short-listed to compete for the $4.5-6 billion contract. What are we looking for here?

Senator Robert Hill:

Well, as part of the total upgrade of the capability of our armed forces, we are starting the process of selection of a new air warfare destroyer. This will be a much greater capability than we've ever had for our Navy.

We are seeking concept designs from two European designers, the Spanish Etha company and the Germans Blom & Voss and also the American company Gibbs & Cox. We're looking for a destroyer-sized ship that will utilise the American air warfare system, probably the Aegis system and that will give us the capability to protect our troops, whether in transit or on the ground, from incoming missiles and aircraft at long distances.

Mark Riley:

So these ships could become part of a missile defence system?

Senator Robert Hill:

Well, certainly the Americans are using the Aegis system as part of their missile defence system. With yet another upgrade they would use an SM3 missile. But, they've very successfully intercepted ballistic missiles already.

Mark Riley:

Would we look to do that, minister, had that missile, the so-called speeding bullet to take down a speeding bullet?

Senator Robert Hill:

Well, that's further afield. We are principally looking at what is necessary to protect our troops from an air threat and the air threat at much greater distances, but certainly the Aegis system, particularly the open architecture system that we’ll be getting, can be relatively easily adapted to the ballistic missile threat and the cylinders we will have for the SM2 missile can take the SM3.

Mark Riley:

I see. What are you doing here with this contract, minister, to guard against the repeat of the debacle with the Sea Sprite helicopters where the contract came in three years late and half a billion dollars over budget? What protections have you put in place here for the taxpayers on this contract?

Senator Robert Hill:

The Sea Sprite was an incredibly ambitious program. It was based particularly in systems integration. What we are doing is we're working off existing ships, so Blom & Voss as its F1-24 ship. Etha has got its F-100, which was made and built in Spain, but has already fired the SM2 with the Aegis system and of course Gibbs & Cox designed the Arleigh Burke, principal air warfare destroyer of the United States. So, I think we've made major steps forward in avoiding problems that we've faced in the past and I think the fact that the most recent contracts, whether it's been the AWACS contract or the new Tiger helicopter contract, the fact they are going so well these days demonstrates that lessons have been learnt.

Mark Riley:

This week you announced another major contract- 59 Abrams tanks bought from the US at a cost of $550 million. Why do we need these tanks?

Senator Robert Hill:

Again, it's protection of our forces on the ground. Basically, our existing Leopards are too vulnerable to - the proliferation of man-held anti-armour weapons and it is particularly dangerous sending forces into the ground, even in relatively low-level conflicts these days, with just light-armoured vehicles. So if you talk to our Army about their concept of combined arms, they believe a tank is critical if we're going to provide the sort of protection that we’re committed to provide to our forces when we send them into danger.

Mark Riley:

But we had over 100 or we have over 100 Leopard tanks and we're getting 59 Abrams tanks. It seems like a rather arbitrary number. Why 59? Was it just, "We’ll have $550 million worth of tanks, thanks."

Senator Robert Hill:

That was the - the cost of the project is a lot more than the cost of the tanks. That's the cost of the support, the training systems, the simulators, the ammunition, the lot. Why the number - that was the number the military determined on the basis of two operational squadrons, one training squadron and the tanks that are needed by the school of armour at Puckapunyal in Victoria.

Mark Riley:

I see. Does this mean, minister, training our soldiers in these tanks means they can slip into American tanks on the battlefield? Is that the purpose?

Senator Robert Hill:

No, that's not the purpose, but the fact that we'll be operating front-line American tanks means we can train with the Americans and take full advantage of the most sophisticated simulation that they can afford and that we often can't afford. So, the inter-operatability is important to us because we often find ourselves serving with the US, but also the capacity to train with them in these most sophisticated of training ranges will also be a step ahead in terms of building our capability.

Mark Riley:

I see. Well, it's good to be a step ahead, I think, minister. Thank you very much for your time this morning.

Senator Robert Hill:

Thank you.

ENDS